職業(yè)女性怎樣搞定辦公室政治？

We’ve heard how companies that have women on their boards have higher returns. We’ve heard how groups that include more women have a higher collective intelligence than those that don’t. Yet we’ve also heard how the number of women in top leadership positions is still growing very, very slowly. So how do we translate what we know about the power of workplace diversity into actual women getting seats at the table?

Rosina Racioppi has made a career of answering that question. As president and CEO of Women UnlimitedInc., she helps women meet their full potential as leaders at some of the world’s largest companies, including Adobe Systems, Bayer, Colgate-Palmolive, and Prudential.

I spoke with Racioppi about the why there’s a need for female-specific professional development programs like those offered by Women Unlimited, why women “opt out” and what we can do to close the gender salary gap.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. You can hear the full interview on Inflection Point, of which Women Unlimited is a sponsor.

Fortune: Why do women need a special development program?

Rosina Racioppi: I don’t know that they need something special, but I do think they need something that’s different than their male counterparts, especially if they’re seeking to advance their careers. Women have a different experience in the organization than their male counterparts, mostly because the organizations’ dynamics were designed by the people who founded them—basically white men. And since we have different expectations than our male counterparts, we need help decoding the organizational landscape that we’re a part of. So that’s what development programs can help women understand.

Your work is primarily with the Fortune 1000 companies, some of the biggest companies out there, which were primarily founded by men.

Even though most of our corporate partners are global multinationals, they were founded by a bunch of white guys. There’s nothing wrong with that—they’re very bright, wonderful, business-minded individuals—but those systems, the artifacts of how the organizations grew, were based on their perspective of how organizations should grow. As women joined the workforce and started growing their careers in structures that were designed by people who saw the world very differently, it’s no wonder that frustration was the result.

The way in which women fundamentally like to work is very different than our male counterparts. Research tells us that men tend to like that hierarchical structure. Women tend to like a much more community-minded structure. Not to say that one is a right and one is wrong—it’s a different way of viewing the organization. These are things no one tells you the day that you start a new job, the behind-the-scenes ways the organization operates. We get a lot of rules and policy, but it’s only when we are trying to get things done or work with other people that we understand the hidden ways in which things are done in the organization. And so it’s part of that culture that creates some unintended barriers for women that are not present for our male counterparts.

When you go in to work with an organization and they’ve identified their high-potential women, the women that that they want you to help develop, what is the approach to training?

Many women who are at a key juncture in their careers where they need to recalibrate their skill don’t develop those networks, those mentoring relationships, that keep us informed so that we’re prepared for that next opportunity. Women tend to get their work done and want their work to speak for itself, and because we work so independently we’re not building those relationships. Hence, we’re not getting that feedback. Our program focuses on working with the women to help them identify those stresses and challenges that they’re experiencing and develop strategies to address them. It’s not about commiserating about the challenges that we have; it’s more important to figure out, "So what are we going to do about it?"

In addition to working with women through the experiential development program, we also work with their managers. It’s important that their managers be aware of not only what is occurring during this development program, but more important what their role in this development process is. What do they need to do to ensure that they incorporate what the women are gaining through this program back into their organization so they can experience that return on investment?

You have talked about a woman’s career being a series of inflection points, that there are these opportunities that we need to take advantage of when the time comes. How can a woman identify what those points are when they’re happening, and what should she do?

I would say we all go through those, men and women. We attend college. We develop an expertise in a given area. Say I start my career as an engineer in an organization where I create impact through a very tactical utilization of my skill. But then I am promoted, so I now manage other engineers. So the way that I create impact is not as direct; it’s a lot more than me just being a good engineer. And it’s those subtleties that oftentimes we’re not taught at school. How do I confront without being confrontational? How do I disagree without being disagreeable? How do I create robust relationships in the organization that allow me to really pull apart challenges and ideas in a way that enables me to get the best results for the business, without damaging my relationships?

So the work that you is about more than helping women get promoted and move up the ladder. It sounds more nuanced than that.

I always say I think it’s important for people to find their career joy. I know you love what you do. I love the work that I do. I see a lot of people that are in roles that they can functionally perform beautifully, and they’re miserable. And I think that happens when you abdicate control over your career to other people. And so it’s important to ask, “What are the things I’m really good at?” And of that, “What is the subset that I not only really love, but that brings value to the business that I’m a part of?” So we’re always connecting it back to the business, and the nuances of our program help the women make those connections.

How did you know that this is what you were meant to do? You talked about finding joy. How did you find it?

I spent the early part of my career in human resources. I led HR departments in manufacturing and chemical companies. What I loved about being in human resources was truly partnering with my business partners to develop the talent to help them grow. Aligning the business strategy with the human development strategies — I found that to be just so much fun. I was in that neutral spot in the organization, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. Then I met Jean Otte, the founder of Women Unlimited. I was a mentor in the program. Jean and I became friends, and then she asked me to join Women Unlimited. It really was bringing together that two things that I love: business and helping people be successful in business.

What is your thought on women who choose to “opt out” of the workforce, the women who leave midway through their careers? Are they holding themselves back? Is it a systemic problem?

I certainly can’t speak for all women who opt out. But when I did my research on women at their mid-career stage and how they leverage their mentoring relationships, one of the things that I heard consistently is, “I was at a point in my career where I was very frustrated. I could not determine how I can get to that next level. And I was thinking about leaving.” What we hear often from women in our mid-career program is that weariness. “No one gave me the decoder ring. I don’t know how to crack the code, and I’m working harder and not getting the same level of results that I once did.” This frustration is endemic across that mid-level. It seems so much easier to just leave and do something else or just opt out completely.

Another part of it is that women at that mid-career level who opt out view the world as either/or. I can either work, or I can stay home. They’re not looking at it as if there’s a middle ground. I remember being stuck on a flight with a woman who shared with me that she had three small children and was thinking of quitting because she felt guilty when she would arrange for a day to be at home when her son would get off the bus. But she had a very flexible schedule. Her boss didn’t care how she managed her day. But she still felt guilty, and she was the highest-producing person on the team. And so I said, “Can’t you possibly just sit down with your manager and say ‘this is what I need regarding my time in order to manage to have harmony in my life?’” We tend to think of it as, “No one will ever let me do that.” But you just need to ask.

If women could find their comfort in saying, “At this point in my life, this is how I can contribute to the business, and here are some of the considerations I need in order to make that happen,” I have found most businesses will say yes as long as it’s reasonable. But when we have this either/or mentality, it shuts off those opportunities. And so then we just opt out.

Where does salary come into this picture? I have heard the argument that women are valued less, so we’re paid less, or maybe we’re not negotiating well enough for ourselves. Does this come back to the “just ask” theory?

I do think that there are pockets where women are more aware of their value and therefore are asking and negotiating more. And yet the wage gap still persists. So I do think a big part of it is women aren’t asking or aren’t as mindful of their value. And then there’s that mindset that I was talking about earlier: “I’ll do the work, prove that I can do it, and then I’ll ask for the raise.” That holds women back, because why would someone give you more money for something you’re willingly doing already? We need to start thinking like this: “If I’m going to be getting a bigger role, if my role is expanding, then why wouldn’t I negotiate to get paid differently or get some sort of benefit for that? My male colleagues always would.” The worst that would happen is someone would say no.

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever been given about supporting great talent?

The best advice I’ve gotten is to give people feedback on what you consider the strengths that they bring to the organization and their role. Help them understand their impact so that they can see that trajectory of talent and impact. And then have an honest dialogue about: “What are you interested in? What would you like to be doing?” As a leader, we don’t need to create the plan for the individual. We need to help them craft it for themselves. That’s really what a good leader does.

參考譯文：

我們都聽說過，董事會(huì)里有女性成員的企業(yè)往往具有較高的收益;我們也聽說過，女性比例更高的團(tuán)隊(duì)有更高的集體智慧。然而我們還聽說過，由女性擔(dān)任的最高領(lǐng)導(dǎo)職位的數(shù)量仍舊增長(zhǎng)得非常緩慢。那么，我們既然已經(jīng)了解職場(chǎng)多樣化的好處，如何才能讓更多女性坐上更高的位子?

Women Unlimited公司的董事長(zhǎng)兼CEO羅西娜·拉西奧比所從事的工作，就是要為這個(gè)問題給出一個(gè)答案。拉西奧比的公司致力于幫助女性在領(lǐng)導(dǎo)崗位上充分發(fā)揮自身潛能，其客戶包括Adobe Systems、拜耳、高露潔、保誠集團(tuán)等許多全球大型企業(yè)。

我近日對(duì)拉西奧比進(jìn)行了專訪，話題包括我們?yōu)槭裁葱枰馱omen Unlimited公司提出的這種女性職業(yè)發(fā)展項(xiàng)目，為什么一些女性會(huì)選擇退出職場(chǎng)，以及我們應(yīng)該怎樣拉平薪資待遇方面的性別差距等等。

為了清晰起見，本文刊發(fā)的采訪文字稿有所刪節(jié)。你可以在由Women Unlimited贊助的網(wǎng)絡(luò)廣播Inflection Point上收聽本次采訪的完整音頻。

《財(cái)富》：女性為什么需要專門的職業(yè)發(fā)展項(xiàng)目?

羅西娜·拉西奧比：我不知道女性是否需要一些特殊的東西，但我認(rèn)為，女性在職場(chǎng)中的確需要一些與她們的男性同僚不同的東西，尤其是如果她們想在職業(yè)生涯中追求更大的進(jìn)步的話。女性在企業(yè)中的感受與男性是很不同的，這主要是由于企業(yè)的氛圍是由企業(yè)的創(chuàng)始人設(shè)計(jì)的——而這些企業(yè)創(chuàng)始人基本上都是白人男性。既然我們與男性同僚有著不同的職場(chǎng)預(yù)期，我們就需要幫助女性解碼職場(chǎng)格局。而女性職業(yè)發(fā)展項(xiàng)目則可以在這方面幫助她們。

《財(cái)富》：你的工作主要是協(xié)助“《財(cái)富》1000強(qiáng)”企業(yè)，也就是一些規(guī)模最大的企業(yè)，而他們主要都是由男性創(chuàng)辦的。

拉西奧比：雖然我們的合作伙伴大都是全球性的跨國公司，但他們基本上都是由幾名白人男性創(chuàng)辦的。這一點(diǎn)其實(shí)無可厚非——他們都是非常聰明能干、極有商業(yè)頭腦的人。但是這些企業(yè)的體系，即企業(yè)的發(fā)展方式，主要是基于這些創(chuàng)始人的看法。隨著女性加入這些企業(yè)，并且開始在這種架構(gòu)下發(fā)展自己的職業(yè)生涯，這種基于另一種世界觀形成的架構(gòu)，自然不時(shí)會(huì)導(dǎo)致女性在職場(chǎng)中產(chǎn)生挫敗感。

拉西奧比：女性喜歡的工作方式與男性同僚是很不同的。研究告訴我們，男性比較喜歡等級(jí)分明的架構(gòu)，而女性一般喜歡更能體現(xiàn)團(tuán)體觀念的組織架構(gòu)。我們不是說這兩種架構(gòu)誰對(duì)誰錯(cuò)，畢竟它們只是看待組織結(jié)構(gòu)的兩個(gè)不同的視角。而當(dāng)你開始干一份新工作的時(shí)候，沒有人會(huì)告訴你這些事，沒有人會(huì)告訴你公司背后的運(yùn)作方式。每個(gè)企業(yè)都有很多規(guī)定和政策，但只有當(dāng)我們?cè)噲D完成一些工作或是與其他人進(jìn)行合作的時(shí)候，我們才會(huì)意識(shí)到企業(yè)的工作方式背后隱藏的玄機(jī)。正是企業(yè)文化中的這一部分，給女性造成了男性員工并不會(huì)碰到的壁壘。

《財(cái)富》：當(dāng)你與一家企業(yè)合作時(shí)，如果他們已經(jīng)確定了一些具有較大職業(yè)潛力的女性，并且請(qǐng)你們協(xié)助發(fā)展她們的職業(yè)前景，你們會(huì)怎樣對(duì)她們進(jìn)行培訓(xùn)?

拉西奧比：許多女性已經(jīng)到了職業(yè)生涯的一個(gè)關(guān)鍵的節(jié)點(diǎn)上，需要重新調(diào)整一下她們的技能。但她們沒有開發(fā)自己的關(guān)系網(wǎng)絡(luò)，也沒有自己的導(dǎo)師，這樣我們就無法知道她是不是已經(jīng)做好了準(zhǔn)備去迎接新的機(jī)會(huì)。很多女性只是喜歡默默地完成工作，然后用工作成績(jī)來說話，因?yàn)槲覀兛偸欠浅＊?dú)立地工作，沒有建立起那些關(guān)系。因此，我們也就得不到那些反饋。而我們的項(xiàng)目重點(diǎn)就在于幫助女性明確這些壓力與挑戰(zhàn)，并且制定解決這些問題的策略。我們不是要對(duì)女性的這些遭遇表示同情，更重要的是要指出一條路：“我們對(duì)這些問題該怎么做?”

除了要與女性朋友在職場(chǎng)開發(fā)項(xiàng)目中合作以外，我們還會(huì)這些女性朋友的經(jīng)理們進(jìn)行合作。他們不僅僅要明白這一開發(fā)項(xiàng)目都包括什么，更重要的是要明白他們自身在這一開發(fā)過程中所扮演的角色。也就是說，他們需要怎樣做，才能把女性從該項(xiàng)目中的收獲回饋到企業(yè)中，以享受到投資的回報(bào)率。

《財(cái)富》：你剛剛提到，女性的職業(yè)生涯中會(huì)有一系列關(guān)鍵的轉(zhuǎn)折點(diǎn)，當(dāng)時(shí)機(jī)到來的時(shí)候，我們需要抓住這些機(jī)會(huì)。那么，當(dāng)這些轉(zhuǎn)折點(diǎn)來臨的時(shí)候，女性怎樣才能識(shí)別出這些機(jī)會(huì)?她們應(yīng)該怎么做?

拉西奧比：我想說，不論男人還是女人，我們每個(gè)人都會(huì)碰到這些問題。我們都上過大學(xué)，我們都具備某一特定領(lǐng)域的技能。比方說，我的第一份工作是在一家公司里擔(dān)任工程師，我對(duì)公司的影響力主要是通過我對(duì)專業(yè)技能的妥善運(yùn)用而形成的。但是一旦我的職務(wù)獲得了晉升，我就要管理其他工程師了。而我形成影響力的方式也不再像以前那樣直接，跟以往一樣只是做好一個(gè)工程師的本職工作是遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)不夠的。而這些微妙之處是學(xué)校沒有教給我們的。我要如何對(duì)抗別人的意見，又不會(huì)顯得太有對(duì)抗性?我要如何否定別人的意見，又不讓別人覺得難以相處?我要如何在企業(yè)里建立起堅(jiān)實(shí)的關(guān)系，使我能夠應(yīng)對(duì)各種挑戰(zhàn)，從而既給公司帶來最好的結(jié)果，又不損害我的現(xiàn)有關(guān)系?

《財(cái)富》：也就是說，你的工作不僅僅是幫助女性在職場(chǎng)獲得提升，而是要比這更加微妙。

拉西奧比：我總是說，人們應(yīng)該找到他們的職業(yè)樂趣所在。我知道你喜愛你的工作，我也喜愛我的工作。我曾見過很多人，她們?cè)谧约旱膷徫簧习压ぷ魍瓿傻煤芎?，但是整個(gè)人的狀態(tài)卻很痛苦。我覺得如果你把職業(yè)的控制權(quán)交到別人手上，就會(huì)出現(xiàn)這種局面。所以我們有必要發(fā)問：“我真正擅長(zhǎng)的事情是什么?”在得到答案后，還要進(jìn)一步發(fā)問：“在我最擅長(zhǎng)的這些事中，有哪些事是我不僅真正喜愛，還能給我的公司帶來價(jià)值的?”因此我們總是會(huì)把項(xiàng)目的重點(diǎn)與企業(yè)聯(lián)系起來，我們的項(xiàng)目的微妙之處，就在于能夠幫助女性做好這種聯(lián)系。

《財(cái)富》：你是如何確立了自己的這一事業(yè)目標(biāo)的?你剛剛談到了人要尋找自己的職業(yè)樂趣，你是怎樣找到你的職業(yè)樂趣的?

拉西奧比：我在職業(yè)生涯早期主要從事人力資源方面的工作。我曾在幾家制造和化工企業(yè)擔(dān)任過人力資源部門的主管。我之所以喜愛人力資源工作，就是因?yàn)樗芰钗彝ㄟ^與業(yè)務(wù)伙伴的合作，促進(jìn)人才的成長(zhǎng)。將企業(yè)的戰(zhàn)略與人力開發(fā)戰(zhàn)略相結(jié)合，讓我感到了很大的樂趣。我處在企業(yè)中一個(gè)十分中立的位置，我也十分喜歡這一點(diǎn)。后來我認(rèn)識(shí)了Women Unlimited的創(chuàng)始人珍·奧蒂。我成了那個(gè)項(xiàng)目的一個(gè)導(dǎo)師，珍和我也成為了朋友。然后她邀請(qǐng)我加盟Women Unlimited。它真正把我喜愛的兩個(gè)東西結(jié)合在了一起——一個(gè)是商業(yè)，另一個(gè)則是幫助他人在商界取得成功。

《財(cái)富》：你怎么看待選擇半路退出職場(chǎng)的女性?她們是否限制了自己的職業(yè)生涯發(fā)展?這是否是一個(gè)系統(tǒng)性的問題?

拉西奧比：我的觀點(diǎn)顯然不能涵蓋所有選擇退出職場(chǎng)的女性。不過我曾經(jīng)對(duì)處于職業(yè)生涯中段的女性做過調(diào)查，看她們是如何利用她們的導(dǎo)師關(guān)系的。當(dāng)時(shí)我經(jīng)常聽到她們說的一句話就是：“我感到我的職業(yè)生涯到了一個(gè)令我很沮喪的階段，我不知道怎么才能到達(dá)下一個(gè)層次，所以我正在考慮離開。”在我們的職業(yè)中期項(xiàng)目中，經(jīng)常聽到女性朋友的一句抱怨，那就是倦怠感。“沒有人能給我一個(gè)‘解碼指環(huán)’。我不知道怎樣破解眼前的難題。我即便更加努力地工作，也無法獲得以前那種水平的成就。”這種倦怠感是職業(yè)生涯的中期所特有的。在這種時(shí)候，選擇離職做其他工作，或者干脆徹底告別職場(chǎng)，也就成了一個(gè)簡(jiǎn)單得多的選擇。

還有一部分處于職業(yè)生涯中期的女性，將職場(chǎng)看成了一個(gè)非此即彼的世界。我要么工作，要么就辭職當(dāng)家庭主婦。她們不覺得二者中間還有折中的余地。我記得有一次，我與一位女性乘坐同一趟航班，她告訴我她有三個(gè)孩子，她正在考慮辭職，因?yàn)樗秊闆]時(shí)間陪伴他們而感到內(nèi)疚。她希望當(dāng)她兒子放學(xué)回家時(shí)，她能在家里迎接他。但其實(shí)上，她的工作日程還是相當(dāng)靈活的。她的老板并不在意她怎樣安排一天的工作。但她仍然覺得很內(nèi)疚，雖然她已經(jīng)是團(tuán)隊(duì)中產(chǎn)出最高的人了。我對(duì)她說：“你能不能與你的經(jīng)理坐下來談?wù)?，?duì)他說：‘我需要這樣安排我的時(shí)間，好讓我的生活變得和諧一些’?”我們總是以為：“沒有人會(huì)讓我那樣做的。”但你需要做的只是問一問。

如果女性朋友可以自信地說：“在我人生的這個(gè)階段，我只有這樣才能為公司做出貢獻(xiàn)。為了達(dá)到這個(gè)目標(biāo)，我有以下幾條建議。”那么據(jù)我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，只要你的要求是合理的，大多數(shù)公司都是會(huì)同意的。但如果我們懷著這種非此即彼的心態(tài)，我們就無法得到那些機(jī)會(huì)。因此那些女性朋友就選擇了退出職場(chǎng)。

《財(cái)富》：你怎么看待薪水問題?有人認(rèn)為女性的工作價(jià)值比男性低，所以她們拿到的薪水也比較低。也有可能是我們?yōu)樽约籂?zhēng)取得不夠。這個(gè)問題是否也適用“大膽要求”的理論?

我的確認(rèn)為有些女性更能意識(shí)到她們的價(jià)值，也勇于與公司談判，要求更高的薪水。然而與此同時(shí)，男女的薪資差異又是真實(shí)存在的。所以我認(rèn)為，造成這個(gè)現(xiàn)象的一個(gè)重要原因，就是女性不敢主動(dòng)要求加薪，或是沒有清楚地意識(shí)到自身的價(jià)值。另外很多女性又有這樣一種我之前說過的心態(tài)：“我會(huì)做好工作的，用工作成績(jī)來證明我的能力，然后我再要求加薪。”這種心態(tài)其實(shí)拖了女性的后腿，因?yàn)槟臣氯绻阋呀?jīng)愿意去做了，別人為什么還要因?yàn)樗o你更多的錢?我們應(yīng)該這樣想：“如果我要承擔(dān)更重要的角色，或是要擔(dān)負(fù)更大的職責(zé)，那么我為什么不能跟公司談?wù)劶有降氖拢蛘咭笠恍┖锰幠?如果換作我的男性同事，他們一定會(huì)提出要求的。”最糟糕的結(jié)果無非就是某人拒絕了你的提議。

《財(cái)富》：在培養(yǎng)人才方面，你接受過的最好的建議是什么?

我曾經(jīng)得到的一個(gè)最好的建議，就是清楚地告訴員工，她們對(duì)公司的作用和貢獻(xiàn)是什么。要幫助員工理解自己對(duì)公司產(chǎn)生的影響，這樣她們才能看到自己的人才發(fā)展軌跡和效果。然后，我們要與人才進(jìn)行一次坦誠的對(duì)話，問問她們：“你對(duì)什么比較感興趣?”作為領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，我們不需要為每位人才都制訂發(fā)展計(jì)劃，只需要幫助她們找到自己該走的路就夠了。那才是一個(gè)好領(lǐng)導(dǎo)該做的事。